Two tieing techniques, compared. (Its not Delta vs. Smokin) )

Thank you for the pointers, Xzoomd. I will definitely look for Delta's guides wherever I find them!

Delta, this version, (the "Revised Color Edition") is copyright 1997, but the notations go back to the original edition by Mel Frank and Ed Rosenthal in 1978. I got this copy from Amazon.com. I've never seen the earlier editions, so can't say what they cover, but this one is full of scientific information which goes WAY over my head, as do most of Delta's posts

Anyway, this book was the only grow guide I had before finding this site, and I can't say enough about how much I appreciate the friendly and knowledgeable people here.

I'm a first time grower , i have learned so much from this site
your post's here I have started to train my plant's
I'm hoping to get a large ammount off of my 5 plant's
i would like to make my grow larger paying off larger

I tryed 3 cloan's
but on saterday it got 100 out side and with the heater inside i cooked my poor little cloan's
but i got the general idea

I had some small wire i started by tieing the top of my plant and holding it in place over 3 day's i have pulled it over to the edge of the bucket now with all the new growth i have stated to pull it into a cross with the largest being about 14 inches long
it's working out very nicely

I started one of the other 4 on the same way just tonight

my internet camera is shot looking to buy a new one
I really hope i can post some picture's here very soon

thanks everyone

Kokanee22

uh oh ....

umm Delta what might be some of the signs of auxin depletion? I kinda got the impression somewhere that you just developed grow tips for Africa and was going to keep trying untill the plant was ready for its last repotting ... ooopps ..

umm if Ive overtrained it ... I started small and have umm about 18 decent growtips at the moment .. I was going to start on the next lot when I repot it tonight ... should I retie it now to get a flat canopy, sog style and just let it recover?

damm and I thought I was doing so well

oh .. do plants with multiple cola take longer to mature before harvesting? Ive got one plant totally untrained and 2 plants half trained flowering .. and the trained plants seem to be taking forever to get going .. they're definately flowering with tight dense flowers .. but they're way way waaaay behind the other one (though its hard to compare since they've only been in flowering for 3 weeks and its been in for 6 )

Re: Re: The plant on the left will be tied the LST way

Nope, not purple. I dont see what your referring to here.
Man, I didnt put my protractor on it , but living with the plant, I can assure you its secondary growth is just as strong as the other three LST plants Ive grown. Probably didnt do them perfect either.

Hurd snapping is out of my growroom altogether, has been since we last talked about it.

later

Smokin

Re: uh oh ....

Africa?

Why do you think youve overtrained it? If youve been tieing branches, why isnt the canopy even? That part is all in your control

Sounds like your doing fine to me.....

Hard to compare, your more mature plant will always cloud your memory of the way it looked at a particular stage. Just wait, three weeks is just about the time bud development really begins in earnest.

Just curious, how are you keeping your trained plants as close to the light as your single cola plant?

good luck lurkapup

Smokin

cool

re: veging clones in training
oh, ok coool umm I guess I thought I was overtraining it since umm pretty much just cause I figured you could ... casue of what Delta had been saying about being able to deplete the plant of auxin ... and I didnt know what effect that would have but I figured it wasnt a good thing ...

Since he seems to know all the theory and he only went to 8 bud sites (mm or am I wrong in assuming a 'branch' (Delta's term) is the same as a budsite or growtip??) .. then I Figured Id way overdone it ...

umm the canopy isnt flat cause Ive been trying to ensure the tied down branch will be lower than the next branches I want stimulated .. it has to be uneven to make the targeted growtips the new auxin controler and some have only just been tied down and are still turning, while some others have turned and begun their upwards growth again .. somewhere between the lowest and highest ..


re: flowering plants ..
sweet, even just tonight actually they do seem to be starting to shoot off .. they've done a huge stretch .. from a couple of centremetres to almost 2 inches in some places :/ umm thats the main reason they're level with the single cola plant too .. I vege'd them longer .. the main cola is actually the mother plant and I needed the space so started flowering it before it began to grow alternate nodes .. so it was pretty short .. its got an almost foot and a half long main bud though ... biiig smiles for that baby
The trained plants I only grew out a couple of top branches a bit more and veged them out to about 17 nodes .. compared to 8 on the single cola ... ummm so yeah the point of this is that they sit pretty even in height with the older plant .. Ive got some woden crates I can put under them anyway to even em out ...

Crates...thats what I use too!

OK, cool. I see. I grow in huge soil volume, 7 gallons, so growing that many tips isnt a big deal. Maybe if your flowering container is significantly smaller than that.....

Currently I have a plant with 22 colas, so it seemed perfectly normal to me (its just barely bigger than the planters profile, Delta ). Obviously its something individual to each garden

You only need to bend it one time to promote the axial growth off the main stem. Those are the branches you simply want to tie for an even canopy. For the most part, you should let them resume vertical growth unhindered

later

Smokin

but wait theres more!!

um but once you've got increased growth along the mainstem, and all these lateral branches are going off .. cant you treat them like mainstems and tie them down .. so that they all begin to have improved lateral growth as well ... so basically grow large branches on your branches .. I kinda know this happens anyway .. but Im thinking of each branch becomes a well trained and groomed budding machine with internodes on its internodes ...

Im wonering how auxin works .. I should prob read some of deltas earlier threads ... are we sure its only produced by one growtip at a time .. what happens when 2 tips are equal ... does it promote growth in the furtherst leaves or inhibit growth in the production tip? or both ... both seem adaptive perhaps 2 chemicals that work together .. a hey you're too close to the light, hey you're too far away kinda thing ...

not being a good environmentalist here .. its the reductionist scientist in me .. trying to conceptualise a complete organism as discrete but interacting parts (ie each branch as interacting but independent of each other) which isnt how organisms work


umm the 'for africa' comment is a throw away phrase popular over here atm .. probably started from something like thats enough food to feed africa kinda comments .. now just for anything where there is a lot of something ...

Wow, great thread here guys! (as usual)

Hello! I almost forgot I had a HC.com account in addition to my pad at Overgrow... so, high everyone. I just wanted to chime in with a big thanks for all the experimentation and technical explaination here on this thread... Woot! -And I wanted to mention my funky hybrid topping/tying experiment currently under way. This is by no means the best way to go (I also prefer not to top at all) but I thought I'd give it a try. I have nine plants growing from seed, widow x sensi star, and I topped all of them at about node 8. gave them about 8 days to recover, or thereabouts, then took the 2-3 apical shoots that came up from the topping and tied them all down 180 degrees, twist-tied to the main stem below. That was 2 days ago I think, I'm still waiting to see what the hell they think about this treatment. Branching was very slow from the lower nodes after topping, they had damage to repair and new apical shoots almost immediately from the top again; now side branches should really take off and when I untie the tops I'll have two to four central colas to go along with the burly side branches if all works out for the best. Good luck with your plants, though your skill leaves little for luck to improve on ; I just wanted to share my wacky yet relevant scheme with you all. -=Telepod=-

roots and training ..

mmm Ive been noticing serious slowdowns in lateral growth lately .. which coincides with the plants being ready for repotting .. they're in umm about 1/6th gallon pots at the moment (not even a 1/4 how bads that) ... and the roots are massing out the bottom of the pot .. so Ive known for a couple of days its needed repotting ... but wanted to try and let as many plants get to that stage before I start putting in larger pots and needing to raise the lights ...

umm but essentially the point is that over the last week the training regeim has slowed down from me tying down new growth almost every few hours to me looking in 9 hours later and deciding to leave it for a bit longer ...

Im wondering if this connects to Delta's barbell model .. if like the plant will actually reduce its own above soil growth to keep pace with its root structure .. while it'll still grow above ground it does slow down a lot if the roots arent their to warrent new growth..

does this sound reasonable?

its kinda useful atm since Ive got about 4 weeks flowering before the other closet is free
but sorta annoying since I was enjoying the engagement with my plants that lots of required training provided